Facilitator Derek Okubo has a word for what happens when a planning process like Envision 2020 gets bogged down in the unknown — or the unknowable — as it looks to nail down ways to accomplish its goals.

He calls it “muck,” and says dozens of Envision participants were busy cleaning it off Thursday night during the latest, and fourth-to-last, meeting.

Some of it came in the transportation subgroup, as planners wondered exactly how far commuters are willing to walk to find a bus stop. Or what, exactly, gets people out of cars and into buses.

They don’t know, but they filled in the spaces with estimates — three blocks sounds reasonable — and agreed to sort out the details once it’s necessary.

Other Envision participants said their planning depends largely on forces they can’t control.

There was talk in the Health and Human Services subgroup that it will take federal action to rein in rising health care costs. And education subgroup co-chair Katherine Duval said it’s “very hard to visualize what education will look like in 2020.”

The location of Blue Earth County’s planned justice center was another murky issue for some. The county prefers a site on Mankato’s edge, while some Envision participants would like to see it downtown.

“What’s Envision 2020 for, if not to make these decisions?” asked Tom Hagen, co-chair of the community planning group.

County officials have made their choice clear, though it illustrates an inevitable clash between Envision and other sources of authority.

Okubo says the remedy for those conflicts is the “safe space” that Envision creates for those authorities to listen, and accept, proposals offered by the group.

It wasn’t all muck, of course, as ideas floated around in that safe space.

Maybe Mankato ought to require that all of its businesses offer health insurance to employees, possibly by buying into a pool. David Johnson, in the economic development subgroup, suggested that someone sponsor demonstrations on converting hybrid vehicles to plug-ins, giving them the ability to use electricity more often.

George Sugden said Mankato ought to require behind-the-wheel driver’s tests every 12 years. Other transportation ideas include bike parking and bus-related focus groups.

Bill Bernhagen suggested that creating urban villages means structuring communities so that “you don’t have to walk far to get everything you want.”

The next Envision meeting, slated for June 1, will focus on identifying responsible parties in each subgroup.